Talk:Eireann Shamrock

From NSwiki, the NationStates encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search

Protection discussion

Eireann Shamrock has been protected against further editing. This is due to continued edits by a variety of IP users, noteably User: (talk), User: (talk), User: (talk) and User:Irelands own (talk), all replacing approximately the same POV edits on the page. While it is impossible to be certain, it appears to be the work of a single user. Despite multiple edits, the changes have never been discussed as requested.

Protecting until consensus is reached. → Fris Θtalk 22:59, 31 Jan 2005 (GMT)

  • There is a real tug of war going on with this page!!! - (unsigned edit by User:

Yeah, well I'm pretty happy with the current version... Prodigal Fenian / Eire Shamrock himself comes on here and amends it to make it read obviously a hell of a lot more favourably than it currently does... I don't know how you would suggest getting consensus!


This page is a gross violation of all that the Nationstates Wikipedia stands for. Clearly more than one person had edited this, as not only Prodigal Fenian/ Eire Shamrock edits it, but others that like this nation have also helped out. There is supposedly a neutrality/non bias aspect to Wikipedia, yet this entry and the initial entry on ES/PF were and are completely biased against him! There are several parts to this that are extremely controversial, the first being that PF/ES is a villain to many, hero to few, and the part about how he may or may not have partaken in illicit substances when the man was simply outraged at what he considered a slight from moderators. This page must be re-written to be totally impartial as it is clear that both sides in this, the anti-PF as well as Pro-PF lobbies clearly have divergent views on this player. This current version, as well as the initial version are both a disgrace to what this Wikipedia stands for and should be re-written with an impartial view of PF/ES and not just this slander. Thank you

NSwiki is not affiliated with Wikipedia or the WikiMedia foundation. It just runs the same software as Wikipedia. Calling it a "Wikipedia" is blatantly wrong. Also, remind me to dig up some of the old PF/ES deletion threads when I've got spare time (as in the weekend....I've got too much homework this week). I find it tantamount to a retcon to argue that all of those many posts were simply a joke. --Goobergunch|? 23:09, 2 Feb 2005 (GMT)
What's a "Retcon"? You are clearly anti-PF/ES, and you wrote the original version of this slanderous commentary. There is no argument that those posts were for a joke, it's blatantly obvious they were, and written in a righteous rage at the blatant disregard for fair play many showed against PF/ES. It is clear that you should have labelled the entry you wrote about ES/PF as an opinion piece, instead of a matter of fact unbiased piece. It's clear from your writing that you have never dealt with ES/PF in the game, though your obvious bias against him is evident. We can all dig up the old PF/ES threads, they are quite instructional and to most non-partisan viewers prove that this nation has been unfairly targeted.
Fixed the Retcon wikilink. I didn't write the original version of this article, as a quick check of the page history reveals, so I'll ignore most of your drivel. As for whether the posts were a joke...the comments in the threads by other players speak for themselves. One other thing....who the heck are you? Signing one's name is a Good Thing. --Goobergunch|? 23:47, 2 Feb 2005 (GMT)

The original article did not follow the rules that you made, nor does this current one. Many people that supported ES/PF have had to change this listing to give it more balance. Here's a quick recap of the first groundrule for writing an entry here: "General tips Use a neutral point of view (don't advocate a particular opinion, or use the wiki to advertise) "

How is lambasting ES/PF, and using a bullseye target, as well as calling him a villain, and stating that he was high on "illicit substances", and numerous other slanderous comments, with absolutely no balance at all, considered a valid entry? It mocks your hard work on this site. It is clear to anyone that knew ES/PF that he was a very passionate player, and tried to exact as much revenge on the mods as possible for hurting his beloved Ireland by leaving them founderless.

Apologies to you Goober, as you are not the biased fool behind the ES/PF postings, it appears that "Scolopendra" and "Frisbeeteria" are the main culprits in this.


The original article was posted by NS Mod Scolopendra, taken in part (I believe) from a NS moderation topic about deletions. I found it both amusing and accurate. Since then, a few minor edits have been made, but the bulk of the edits have been little more than bragging by or about PF/ES, and have been almost entirely unsigned. Talk page messages asking for discussion have gone unanswered. Posts complaining about the reversions have inevitably been unsigned, and almost always come from the same IP addresses that are doing the edits.
Given the fact that all these multiple fans somehow manage to recreate exactly identical content with each post-reversion edit, I can only conclude that the so-called "Pro-PF lobbies" are in fact a single user attempting to masquerade as more than one person. Unsigned, anonymous posts on talk pages carry very little weight in calculating my conclusions about the validity of any NSwiki article. Since I see no "Pro-PF" signed posts from any established or reputable wiki members, I see no any reason to unprotect this page at this time. → Fris Θtalk 02:35, 3 Feb 2005 (GMT)
As the author of the piece signed "Waterford" has only made edits on the same disputed pages in question, I still see no reason to change my guess that this is once again ES/PF. Also, since he took the time in between edits to vandalize User:Scolopendra, he can cool off for 24 hours before responding. → Fris Θtalk 01:44, 3 Feb 2005 (GMT)

There are actually three people that change ES/PF's page for him, and there are a few that change it for the worse. How do I know, I'm one of the three. We all reside in either Ireland, Eire Nua, Imperial Germany, or the USSR, depends on the time.

As for having that other author "cool off", apparently you might want to take your own advice! How would you find a totally biased article on ES/PF, someone you've never dealt with other than your own limited "reading" of a few moderation topics, form such an opinion as to call the slanderous statements made against ES/PF as "both amusing and accurate." Sure it's amusing, since you're probably just another bandwagon ES/PF hater, but for the multitudes that still praise ES/PF and know him for all the heroic deeds he did for Ireland and other Nationstates regions, the persecution he recevied from the moderators and people of your ilk, we shall always raise the ES/PF banned high and shall endeavor to change this slanderous listing whenever possible.

If you all are interested in a "wikipedia" type neutral version then there should have been one from the beginning! We've just been changing it from an extremely anti-PF bias to a more pro-PF bias. There is a real problem here when the original listing was allowed to stay for so long, and we're all happy to do our part in helping correct the lies spread against ES/PF. Thanks, Paul Rafale

I've just posted a request for comment on this page in the Ireland embassy in the ADN. --Goobergunch|? 02:18, 4 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Orgybot - Well I would be one of the people who would, "edit for the worse", as you put it... The fact of the matter is the current version I think is quite fair... If we put a topic up onto the main NS Forums I think we'd find that most do, in fact, think PF is an almighty annoyance and pretty childish... I've only really updated confirmed NS kills of PF puppets... Btw, you can add GlensofDoire, GlensofDoire2 and Irish Patriot One to the list... I'll get Ireland's official representatives to contact you here... I can tell you however that the population en masse of Ireland currently do not want anything to do with PF and he is pretty much universally loathed as an NS player... I've some idea that the real life guy is not so bad, he in fact admitted to me once that he enjoyed roleplaying a megalomaniacal despot... Well, the PC brings out the worst in some people!

Discussing the areas of conflict individually,

first of all why is there dispute over the inclusion of these names to the list of ex-nations:
  • Glenravel the Just
  • Ceili Cowboy
  • James connolly
  • Righteous Rebel
  • FreedomloverIreland

Rechze(talk) 00:55, 6 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Because those nations were not ES/PF's. The mods have deleted many nations they THINK are ES/PF's, or have been told as such.

As for the comment by "Orgybot" that ES/PF is universally loathed, that's an absurd notion as he is more well liked and known than any other player from Ireland. Name one more popular ? Of course he has enemies, most famous/controversial people/nations do. Also, is there really a mass of people IN Ireland anymore? It's down to 40 nations, and many of those nations were already against ES/PF before the coup, so not many nations of "Ireland" really left.

Wow. What an ego. While it's possible that the 40 or so members of Ireland have a popularity opinion based on politics, the remaining 124,308 nations have for the most part no opinion whatsoever. For the few of us that actually have heard of him, our only contact with this player has been through his history of vandalism of NS and NSwiki, as chronicled here and in the NS Moderation forum. There's nothing "famous/controversial" about being a well-known vandal. Notorious, perhaps, as an example of a serial rule-breaker, but hardly controversial. Also, as the previous author continues to post these defensive comments anonymously, they have zero weight in this discussion in any event. → Fris Θtalk 12:43, 7 Feb 2005 (GMT)

But why not then have them put under a title "Suspected ex-nations".

As for the standing of the person in question, whether he is "universally loathed" or "more well liked and known than any other player from Ireland", seems to me irrelevant, and perhaps sections concerning the "popularity", should be removed, or mitigated to a more vague sense. Rechze(talk) 07:23, 8 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Orgybot - My comments are not up for dispute... NS Mods confirmed Glensofdoire as a PF/ES kill over the weekend, those nations are confirmed... Ireland, in the days of PF, was flooded with puppets, thanks to his stewardship we are only now beginning to get a true picture of who wants to be involved in building a democratic region... He is universally loathed by those residing in Ireland and like I said is deepy unpopular on the Jolt forums themselves...

By the way.. "en masse" means "as a whole", it doesn't refer to the English word "mass"... Perhaps I should not have used French as it was clearly misinterpreted by one of PF's legendary allies... ;O)

"A villian in the eyes of many, a hero to few," This phrase seems biased whether in this form or the inverse, why not just have it removed as it has been an item of controversy. Rechze(talk) 07:23, 8 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Orgybot - I'd rather we just spelt "villain" correctly...

PF -- It's nice to be famous :)

Orgybot - Put lines in when you're talking dude... It's make it easier all round...

OB - Well, seeing as nobody has anything more to offer, can we just get the correct spelling on Villain and lock the page???

Done. Rechze(talk) 13:33, 14 Feb 2005 (GMT)

OB - Nice one Rechze!

PF -- Sure your comments are up for dispute, as they are idiotic. Like when you wrote something bizarre concerning the use of, "En masse"? OB always appears silly, especially when he writes such lame attempts at condescension. I don't really know what he's referring to here, but it's rather bizarre that this clown actually thinks that is somehow clever. I re-read the thread, and things that myself and others have written, and haven't the foggiest where he got that from... anyone?

Also, it was confirmed that I was not glens and those others, so clearly what you write is up for debate as you make a point of always being wrong.

OB/Keane16 in Ireland is a pariah, the only ones that accept him are those that couped the region with him. Look at Eire Nua, how many we have, and see how many are the real natives of Ireland, then look at pathetic "Ireland", with 26 nations and dwindling, under lock down, and all of those there, Coup Mara, Keltic Misery, Orgybot/keane16, Brega and mide, none are natives of Ireland. OB was universally loathed in Ireland, that's why he was booted out on his arse numerous times, and now is crying about me, obsessed with me since I clearly hurt him so much. There is no other reason for him to write all these pathetic phallacies here, but then again that's his M.o. That's Latin for Modus operandi OB, but then again unlike you I am smart enough to know that phrases such as "en masse" and "Modus operandi" are colloquial phrases that the average person even knows.

The best part about this fraud is that he claims to be anti-elitist, then writes condescending prose in the style of an elitist, all very shameful and sad.

OB - I rest my case...

PF - Thank you for conceding. Ciao

Given that this doesn't seem to be about the article anymore, I'm unprotecting. However, please note when editing that this article is about the region Ireland and not any specific group of players that previously called Ireland home. Although information about any underground or subversive movement is of course fully valid. --Goobergunch|? 23:42, 2 Mar 2005 (GMT)

PF - the region known as "Ireland" is a dead joke, look at it.

I hope that this is to indicate that no one has any issues with the article in its current state. Yet if there are still problems, please express yourself. Rechze(talk) 10:28, 4 Mar 2005 (GMT)

This seems like a very odd article to me, as someone who doesnt know much / anything about this affair and only found out about it by reading the discussion bit on the NationStates entry in Wikipedia.

It says that Eire Shamrock is a contravercial figure but does not really explain why, except to say that he has been deleted a lot / broken a lot of rules. That may make him an 'interesting' character but not necessarily 'contraversial'. Where is the contravercy? The only opinion that has been expressed here appears to be centred around the bad things that this person has done, and where there is contravercy there are always two sides. There only seems to be one side expressed in this acticle, and several bits of it look extremely unprofessional and biased:

"Deleted for repeated acts of flaming and spamming even after being warned by half the Mods and even by [violet] in one case. His rantings fell well into realm of delusional."

- This, for example (the bolding is my own). Although it may be necessary to lock this to prevent vandalism, if it must be locked then more attention should be paid to NPOV concerns, which does not appear to have been the case when the brief, uniformative and rather one-sided article was written.

The last edit to this page was over a month ago. Vandalism has become increasingly sporadic. Why lock it now? I also don't see why we should go into details about his offences. He was a troll, and this article is actually unusally long for an ex-nation.Gruen2alk 20:07, 6 November 2005 (GMT)