NSWiki:Polls/Infobox Nation Redesign

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was implement but allow pages to use custom infoboxes.

Infobox Nation change (6/16/0/1/2/2)

To change Template:Infobox Nation to the new version presented at User:Ceorana/Sandbox. The new version ought to work with old pages, but it also contains lots of other fields so we can universally apply it to all nation pages. See NSwiki talk:Info boxes. Ceoran_ta 19:30, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

Implement and use on all nation pages

1. Ceoran_ta 19:30, 11 November 2006 (GMT)
2. Mikitivity 20:15, 11 November 2006 (GMT)
3. Eluvatar 22:54, 11 November 2006 (GMT)
4. Antrium 20:55, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
5. Domnonia 00:40, 13 November 2006 (GMT)
6. Belarum 00:49, 13 November 2006 (GMT)

Implement, switch out current infobox but allow pages to use custom infoboxes

1. BramP 22:27, 11 November 2006 (GMT)
2. It'd be ridicolous to require this for all nations and I'd refuse to let it on my page because of my custom infobox. Lightman 00:19, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
3. Asgarnieu 00:24, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
4. I agree with Lightman--Ked|talk|fax 00:27, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
5. Zeke 01:34, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
6. I don't want to see custom inboxes removed, that's part of the pull of the wiki. What would we do for feature articles if they all looked the same? Kuroutesshin 11:00, 12 November 2006 (EST)
7. Implement, but leave all other infoboxes usable. Vault 10 _{- diplomacy -}^{- the outlands -} 07:13, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
8. Re: above comments (( Pacitalkia )) Time sent: 07:37, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
9. --swilatia 13:47, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
10. - Fris 14:46, 12 November 2006 (GMT) (As long as it's 100% backward compatible)
11. --Pantocratoria 16:01, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
12. Forcing implementation of a box not as usefu/informative as the custom one(s) I or many others already have? Get bent, frankly - Starblaydia 23:06, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
13. ^Je_y^° 02:05, 13 November 2006 (GMT)
14. Northrop-Grumman 16:34, 15 November 2006 (GMT)
15. Agree with Starblaydia. —Commerce Heights (talk) 17:27, 17 November 2006 (GMT)
16. The other infoboxes should still remain usable, but I rather like this new one compared to the old one. Entsteig 00:45, 26 November 2006 (GMT)
17. I'd add more to the discussion but my main points were heretofore addressed Azazia 01:00, 26 November 2006 (GMT)

Implement but put on new template page

1. --swilatia 21:23, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

Oppose

1. Hideous. K.I.S.S. Hack 02:15, 20 November 2006 (GMT)

How about, instead of using potentially offensive terms, keeping it friendly, elaborating on why you oppose this decision and, next time, updating the vote tally when you're done? Thank you. :) (( Pacitalkia )) Time sent: 07:33, 20 November 2006 (GMT)

Neutral

1. ~Gruen2alk 23:41, 11 November 2006 (GMT)
2. Aridd 00:01, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

There are too many poll options

1. ~Gruen2alk 01:49, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
2. ^Je_y^° 02:05, 13 November 2006 (GMT)

Comments/Questions

What are sovereignty notes and the solstat? Also, many nations have multiple timezones, thus I'd suggest a link to "timezone" point out that this is the capital's timezone. Mikitivity 20:15, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

Sovereignty note is a note about the sovereignty - for example, an article about RL US would have sovereignty_type = Independence and sovereignty_note = From Great Britain. Established_dates are the dates that different events happened. Solstat stands for Standard Of Living STATistic, like an HDI or something. Most of the fields are used on Ceorana, so you can get a little more information from looking at that. I'll try to write some documentation for it as well.. Ceoran_ta 20:24, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

I don't think we should force one infobox on all nations, as some nations don't have the incentive to come up with all this stuff, and I am sure that certain nations don't observe DST (In fact, Swilatia does not observe it.), and sime nations use their flag as the emblem, so there are some problems. what I think should be done is Re-organise the Info Boxes page, to show that we have multiple nation infoboxes, instead of telling people to use one. besides, so many pages use infobox: nation, that it will take ages to change all the pages so that they are not filled with triple braces. so the best bet here would be to add this as a completely different template. --swilatia 21:34, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

I think that any new infobox has to be completely backward compatible, so that the same fields that are in the old infobox (flag, region, motto, map, language, capital, population, currency, leader) are required, and all the others optional, in which case the triple braces that show up were already there with the old template. Otherwise it would be better if it's added as a new template. :: BramP 22:27, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

This template will work absolutely fine with current nation pages; it is 100% backward compatible. You can put in just the params that are currently required and come out with a good-looking page, see User:Ceorana/Sandbox2, which is Mikitivity, exactly as it appears in its curernt article but linking to User:Ceorana/Sandbox. There are no triple braces! (This is because includeonly tags are included in the qif tags, in order to show what it would look like on the template page. Ceoran_ta 22:43, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

Yup, that looks identical to the standard infobox I'm using ... though I would rather use the one with more forms, and when this vote is resolved plan to switch over.  :) Mikitivity 23:12, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

Meh. ~Gruen2alk 23:41, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

Is there an ISO code field? If there isn't, there should be.--Ked|talk|fax 01:38, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

No, there's not, but it would be very simple to add one. I can do it if you like. Ceoran_ta 00:33, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

Yes, please. That would be nice. I think ISO code is one of those things that most nations have. Or should.--Ked|talk|fax 01:38, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

It's not policy here, but we do have the thing on the edit window, so I think we might all want to check out Wikipedia:WP:OWN. Ceoran_ta 00:33, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

We have always held nation articles, and others, to a different standard. ~Gruen2alk 00:41, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I sort of get what you mean, but what standard? Ceoran_ta 01:05, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

That players are allowed to exert a degree of ownership over their nation page. ~Gruen2alk 01:48, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

That degree of freedom will not be changed by moving to a slightly different infobox. Mikitivity 01:51, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I want to point out that if you are using a custom box right now, then a change in the standard box shouldn't harm you -- though it may help. We can NEVER force everybody to use the general template. If you have something better, chances are no standardized treatment will meet all your needs. The point is to consider what sort of things we might want to see in most nations. Our votes shouldn't be based on exceptions to the baseline, but the baseline itself. Mikitivity 01:31, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I don't like GDP or GDP per capita being displayed as all the calculators I've seen are highly subjective, contradict each other and, more importantly, contradict NationStates (wildly, at times). So, will the GDP information be added automatically? Or will I have the option of entering my own text? willd 11:40, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I included a suppresion switch to turn off displays of the calculators. I think it's on the Infobox talk page. It's only "on" or "off", no option to add your own material, but you can use your article to do that. - Fris 14:52, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

The proposed change allows turning them off or changing them, by adding stats= as a parameter. Ceoran_ta 17:01, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I was the one who took Goobergunch's original Infoboxes and expanded them into standards. If this method maintains the clean look of the original, but allows additional information, I'm fine with that. The one thing I'd point out is that we made the instructions for a basic infobox as idiot-proof as possible, to allow people with ZERO wiki experience to create a nation page in minutes. I would be opposed to anything that made those instructions more complicated. A link to expanded infobox content, yes, but not on the primary page. This is the NSwiki front door. Let's not screw it up. - Fris 14:52, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I absolutely agree with this. ~Gruen2alk 16:29, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I agree that it should be easy, but it doesn't need to be completely idiot-proof. I mean, if a person can't take a little time to figure out a little about how the wiki works, what's the chance they'll add real, good-quality content? Ceoran_ta 17:01, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I don't think we should be making that kind of judgment. If people are being put off from starting to contribute, that is a serious problem - and this template is one of the things that could do that, if overcomplicated. ~Gruen2alk 02:45, 13 November 2006 (GMT)

But is it necessary to "hide" advanced information that would help those users become more advanced? For example, I know when I was a new user, I was actually under the impression that only admins could make templates - because they were the only ones who ever made them, and the syntax was presented as if it was magic. I'm all for keeping the front door simple - but let's not overprotect new users who are looking for information about how to use the full powers of the wiki. Ceoran_ta 04:00, 13 November 2006 (GMT)

It appears we have a front-runner; to replace the current infobox with the new one but leave other possibilities intact. Ceoran_ta 17:01, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.